並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E9%A3%9B%E7%A2%9F%E9%9B%BB%E5%8F%B0/%E9%A3%9B%E7%A2%9F%E6%97%A9%E9%A4%90-%E5%94%90%E6%B9%98%E9%BE%8D%E6%99%82%E9%96%9320230310-%E6%B0%91%E5%85%B1%E4%BA%A4%E6%B5%81%E9%96%8B%E5%A7%8B%E4%BA%86-EvVOb2LCugG/